wildeabandon: crucifix necklace on a purple background (religion)
Readers may remember that around a year ago I went through one of my occasional periods of wondering more seriously whether or not I have a vocation to the priesthood, and came out of it feeling reasonably confident that any such vocation, if it did exist, was some way into the future, but that in the more immediate term I was being called towards two things. One of these was a deeper involvement in church music which has been developing well. The second was lay readership, which I intended to pursue after the wedding, once I had a bit more free time. In advance of this I emailed Fr Irena, the the Area Director for Training and Development, to ask whether my being in a same-sex marriage was likely to be an impediment. She got back to me saying that it wasn't clear, but that there were discussions going on and that she expected to have more clarity by June. Last Sunday she was at St John's to say Mass, as Mthr Alice was on holiday, so I spoke to her about it, and although there hasn't been a final decision made, she thought it looked pretty unlikely that the diocese would be willing to license me as a reader any time soon. (She made it very clear, I hasten to add, that she thought this was ridiculous and wrong.)

I'm pretty upset. It took a while to sink in - my immediate response was to think that I should be upset and angry, but not to actually feel those things. The following evening I had an encounter with some casual homophobia on the way to the train station, which just made me feel very tired in an "it never stops" sort of way, but then this morning it took me six hours from my alarm going off to having the wherewithal to leave the house and go in to work. (I think if I didn't have such flexible working conditions and actually needed to be in then I might have been able to force myself, but who knows; in any event I am in the fortunate position that such a late start won't actually have any consequences except me having to get the work done some other time.) It took me a little while to connect that to the news about readership, but I've definitely observed that being upset about something tends to hit me in the executive function before I start actually experiencing sadness, and as soon as that clicked the feelings welled up. I still don't seem to be experiencing any anger, but I am disappointed.

There are various things going on. Part of it is that knowing that I'm not permitted to pursue a priestly vocation makes it harder to discern whether or not I actually have one, because like many people I find that not being able to have something makes me want it more, and it's hard to tease that out from a genuine call. And not knowing is uncomfortable, in a way that knowing but being denied (whilst undoubtably having its own set of difficulties) wouldn't be. I was hopeful that becoming a reader would give me more information to use in that discernment process, and losing that tool is a setback.

Another part is that the call to this particular form of ministry has been growing stronger in the last few months. As well as being a role that I think would be good for me and my spiritual growth and development it's one to which I think I'd be well suited; in which my talents would be put to good use and allow me to give of myself and help to bring other people closer to God. As [personal profile] themidnightgirl wisely observed the other night, it's always disappointing to be told that decision-makers don't feel you'd be suitable for a role you think you'd be good at, but it's one thing for that to happen because their judgement of your abilities doesn't match your own; it's quite another and rather more galling, when it's based on something that should be irrelevant.

And then another part is just, well, rejection hurts. And rejection from someone beloved, to whom you have given a lot of yourself hurts particularly. (For the avoidance of doubt, I'm speaking of the church, not Christ. My faith that He accepts me and loves me just as I am is completely unshaken, and I'm fortunate to have that sureness.) I am generally in a position of considerable privilege, which I frequently allow to shield me from the amount of homophobia there still is in the world and in the church, which means that when I am forced to face it head on it comes as rather more of a surprise than it perhaps should. I know intellectually that the institution is riddled with it, but because I very rarely actually encounter it in my daily life, it's easier not to look at it. Slightly peculiarly, I'm actually somewhat glad of the encounter outside the tube station yesterday. There is a part of me that is asking why I want to be part of a church which treats me so poorly because of my sexuality, and the reminder that the secular world is hardly a utopia of acceptance makes that question easier to answer.

I'm not quite sure what I'm looking for in posting this, but I think I would appreciate engagement.

Date: 2019-07-09 03:32 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] ex_inklessej388
From the bottom of my heart I am sorry. As someone who is discerning the priesthood as well I can relate to how personal and challenging the road to vocation can be without even considering running into homophobia and regressive policies which are not rooted in the Gospel. They will reject you because they rejected Him, those words in this instance are meant for you my friend. While I am not advocating for you to leave the church (in the Heavenly sense), it may very well be time to bang the dust off of your sandals and move to the next town, which could simply mean hunkering down for a long journey to showing small minds how they are terribly wrong in the assessment of you.

The readership part is particularly disturbing simply because they are barring you from the graces that come along with positions of leadership within the church. In the secular world we might call this “rising to the occasion” and they are keeping a little one from expanding and deepening their love and relationship with a Christ. We know Jesus had some pretty tough words for people who do that, the Gospels are clear in that regard.

You are in my prayers and are loved. The heavenly church of saints are looking down upon you, even while their tears fall on those who mislead within the earthy branch.

Date: 2019-07-09 03:48 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] ex_inklessej388
I will pray that the Holy Spirit provides you with the insight your mind and soul are craving. Do you have a particular saint you lean on for inspiration? I am feeling like Saint Paul might be a good help here, he too was rejected for some time by the earthy church despite being converted and commissioned by Christ Himself.

Date: 2019-07-09 04:50 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] atreic
atreic: (Default)
I’m sorry. You seem to have bags of wisdom and insight into this and your feelings about it already, so it’s hard to know what to say, but I am so sorry, and thinking of you lots.

Date: 2019-07-09 06:23 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] ewt
Oof. I'm very sorry to read this.

Date: 2019-07-09 08:43 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] ewt
(Also I can make unofficial enquiries about Southwark if you like... and can talk to you a little about Chelmsford, too.)

Date: 2019-07-09 08:19 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] emperor
emperor: (Default)
This is really stupid, and I don't see why dioceses are rejecting people out of hand because of their sexuality. I'm sorry that our institutional homophobia has caused you pain :(

Date: 2019-07-09 08:46 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] nou
nou: The word "kake" in a white monospaced font on a black background (Default)
Yes — the church is riddled with homophobia, but society is too. I’m sorry it’s messing up a thing you’re trying to figure out.

Date: 2019-07-09 09:43 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] liv
liv: In English: My fandom is text obsessed / In Hebrew: These are the words (words)
Very very much sympathy. I find I'm talking about potential ordination in my religion, and the answer is almost certainly no because I'm married to someone who isn't Jewish (in our particular case gender isn't the issue). And that tiny crack between "almost" and "certainly not" is restricted by the fact that I'm also poly. I think it's probably less bad than being barred because of my gender or orientation, and maybe I wouldn't want to do it anyway. But I dunno, if you want to get together and talk religious politics and institutional homophobia sometime, that could happen?

Date: 2019-07-09 10:22 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] barakta
barakta: (Default)
I'm sorry those hurtful and discriminatory barriers are being put in your way. I hope you have the right support around you to work out how to deal with the impacts of that. Thinking of you.

Date: 2019-07-10 06:09 am (UTC)From: [personal profile] aiwendel
aiwendel: (Default)
I think just because it's no now, doesn't mean it always will be. You mentioned that it was not the right time to go into priesthood and you weren't sure. Perhaps it's also not the right time for the other and when the right time comes circumstances will change to allow it. Xxxx

Date: 2019-07-10 11:17 am (UTC)From: [personal profile] ludy
ludy: an arched window inmy old house (arch)
I am so sorry.
And yes Church Humans are are subset of Society and thus are tainted by homophobia...

You deserve to have your gifts and your loving relationship welcomed and fully appreciated by your community.


I have a while bunch of incoherent thoughts about the vast swathes of different people who's ministries have not been recognised and supported throughout church history. And how when you do finally find the role you are being called to it will be so much more meaningful and true than for someone who was able to follow the obvious path without conflict. And maybe having a definite answer (at least for now as people have said above) is better than having to find hole-in-corner ways of fudging the rules and risking rejection later?
But it's still so unfair and hurtful and you don't deserve this.

For research for the Multifaith Spiriotual Space at BiCon i read a liturgy from St Martin In The Fields for the 50th anniversary of the 1967 Sexual Offences Act (in this book) and it was beautiful and i'm sure the service would have been intensely moving if i had been there (just like going to the funeral of a former Brighton person who had moved to that congregation and had asked to have Bi Pride colour ribbons on her coffin was powerful and moving).
But i'm still the person who walked away from the denomination/tradition i grew up in 20 odd years ago because of homophobia etc and still misses it and mourns it. And i think you will continue be the person who always loves and clings to your tradition and community even though it sometimes hurts you. None of our choices and commitments are perfect in this world...

If you welcome prayers form a pagan i will pray for you

Date: 2019-07-10 01:04 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] jack
jack: (Default)
Oh dear, that's such a shame :( I'm so, so sorry. I really hope the Church gets its act together, although that will almost certainly be a long, long road.

Someone suggested exploring the option of other dioceses or similar. That does sound quite doubtful for the reasons you said, but it may be worth going to the effort of finding out.

Likewise, it sounds like Fr Irena is very sympathetic, and I assume you have other people in the church hierarchy who are also hopefully supportive and sympathetic. It's good that those people exist, and it's not everyone who's against you. It doesn't fix anything, but other people can shoulder some of the burden.

Can you arrange to talk to Fr Irena or someone else at greater length? I imagine this will happen anyway, but you may want to specifically ask if you haven't anyway. Hearing a more full account of what decisions have been going on, and suggestions for other possible courses of action that might fulfil some of the same things, might make the picture a lot clearer. The answer might be "word from the top of the hierarchy, not going to happen anywhere" or "this part of the church is usually really progressive but someone is being really weirdly intransigent about this, possibly turning elsewhere in the church would actually be easier". Or "we're in ongoing debate about this but we need a test candidate to fight the battle, are you willing to volunteer to be the face of this?" Or "not good atm, but things might clear up in a couple of years if things keep going the same way". Those are all bad, but seeing the shape of the problem may make what you want become clearer, or suggest which alternatives draw you and which don't.

And finally, I don't quite have the words for this, but it happens that people have callings that don't seem to fit what's possible, but the pursuit can be good in its own way: it's awful if decide something is a calling and you CAN'T pursue it, but even trying may do a lot of good in its own way, a drip drip of many people softening the way for the path to be open in future, even though that's not what you set out to do.

Date: 2019-07-10 09:06 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] doseybat
doseybat: (Default)
Ouch. And empathy RE your reaction. In my recent experience of things that like look like homophobia in the NHS and at work (less overt than your case) the only emotional response I achieved is a sort of "continuous feeling of mild detached disbelief" that this could be actually happening. Not skilled at accessing or expressing my anger in any context - and with homophobia too none has made itself known. This is in contrast to my continuous observation of stuff-that-looks-like-sexism at work: seeing a lot of it continuously my anger does come up, maybe because sexism is something I am more able to discuss with colleagues and seems sort of easier, a more openly tackled community issue with us

Date: 2019-07-10 11:50 pm (UTC)From: [personal profile] smhwpf
smhwpf: (Default)
Again, I am so sorry that the Church that we both love is being so shitty to you. :-( Totally makes sense the hurt and rejection taking time to sink in.

It is so incomprehensible and stupid and shows such closed-ness to the Holy Spirit.

I don't have anything more useful to say, but I pray that God helps you find ways to take forward your vocation in spite of the worst efforts of some of His people.

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